Information - Civ 4: The List
Governments & Social Engineering
Government & Social Engineering
-Azazel
Introduction
Government is not only the leader's primary tool, It's the supreme organization in every nation.
Society is the human network of personal connections, and the norms that can hold a civilization together, or break it.
This is the place for suggestions for the implementation of both of these in the game.
Index
1. Government ( Government choices, new governments, change of existing
government forms. )
2. Society ( similar to SMAC's Social Engineering models)
3. Federalism vs. Centralization
4. SE Proposals and Government Models
5. Other (Misc)
Conclusion
The Ideas
1. Government ( Government choices, new governments, change of existing
government forms. )
Bring back Fundamentalism, and several of the Civ3:Conquests governments.
-Brent.
New governments for the ancient age, like "City state", which would be similar
to a republic, but more primitive, and "Empire", which would allow you to
control large territories.
- skywalker
An assembly with a mind of it's own in democratic governments, that could make
some decisions on it's own. ( but not complicate the game too much )
- Stefu
The ability to fully customize the government, Describing the internal political
system of it, and then, if needed, answering the government's democratic
institutions, etc.
-Cras
The changes of government, should be mostly left for the society itself, and not
for the player, while the player could have means dealing with such things, such
as supressing it with police, or changing the government's priorities. If all
fails, you'll be either be able to peacefully, and automatically, and peacefully
switch to the government of the people's desire, or fall into anarchy. You'll
also be able to try and push governmental change yourself, but that will have to
have popular support, as well.
-Lorizael
Having government departments, instead of mini-wonders, to describe the
functions of one's government. Those will also evolve, and appear over time, and
technology.
-Mr. Nice Guy
A Libertarian government, that would have no conscription, little taxes, more
pollution, but more efficiency, and more happiness.
-Lawrence of Arabia
The choices made by the government ( perhaps in the Social Engineering model -
Az ) will be used to 'calculate' to what sort of government does a certain
government belong.
-Mr. Orange
2. Society ( similar to SMAC's Social Engineering models)
A system of different factors as in SMAC where each factor is on part of
governments: like "social values" (religion - science - nobility [goes from
European nobles to Confucius] - individualistic freedom - nationalism),
"statecraft" (from totalitarian to total demnocracy), "power structure (from
centralized to tribal), "economics" (from communism to complete capitalism),
"justification of power" and "justice system" (theocratic to complete far west)
See this post for the complete model:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=3173279#post3173279
-Trifna
Traits having having a limited lifetime, and being changed either through
gradual change, or revolution
- Sandman
Having scroll bars define various aspects of society: like market economy,
nationalism, religion, etc.
-Optimizer
A system similar to SMAC, having the earth equivalents of the SMAC societal
traits.
- Fosse.
A system that would having two major choices: One of economic systems: like
capitalism, socialism, mercantilism, etc. and one of political structures, ala
democracy, monarchy, totalitarian. etc.
Also, smaller chocies would be available, like treatment of minorities, slavery,
etc.
-Stefu
Societal interaction - factions and classes in the society that would interact.
Their levels would depend on their numbers, their civ traits, and the
civilization level.
-The_Aussie_Lurker
3. Federalism vs. Centralization
Instead of courthouses, have county seats, that would have similar effects to
the palace, only smaller, and would be one for every 5 cities. In those places,
governors would be appointed, and general happiness level for the regions would
exist. If the happiness will become too low, the region could rebel.
-Trebuchet
Governor Indpendence - governors choosing a percentage of the next items under
construction, that percentage depending on the government.
-lajzar
4. SE proposals, and government models
Trifna's Social Egineering model:
*system of valors*
religion - science - nobility [goes from European nobles to Confucius] -
individualistic freedom - nationalism
*statecraft*
totalitarian [includes king only or pope, depending on "power justification"] -
oligarchic [includes king + nobles or whattever else] - moderate democracy [some
have more power, like actual democracies] - total democracy
*power structure*
centralized - federation - republic - [Switzerland-like] - decentralized
[includes anarchist local self-government, tribal local governance...]
*economics*
communism - soft-line communism [not following completely] - wealth state -
moderate capitalism - complete capitalism
*justification of power*
theocratic - nationalist - militarily enforced - representativity -
self-governance - nobility - technocratic
*justice system*
theocratic - oligarchic - martial - tribal or local - free for all [each
locality organized itself as they wish and could]
Optimizer's system of sliders
* Market economy: A high value makes industrial buildings faster to build, but
it decreases tax income.
* Gender equality: A high value increases industrial production but decreases
fertility.
* Natonalism: A high value decreases war weariness but decreases the
assimilation rate.
* Religiosity: A high value increases the power of Temples but makes policy
changes more expensive.
* Political climate: A high value increases the efficiency of military police
but decreases science.
* Centralization: A high value makes policy changes easier, but increases the
risk of civil war.
TheBirdMan's evolution of governments
0 GOVERNMENT_ANARCHY
1 GOVERNMENT_TRIBAL_CHIEF
2 GOVERNMENT_ANCIENT_CITY_STATE
3 NO GOVERNMENT KINGDOM
4 NO GOVERNMENT EMPIRE
5 GOVERNMENT_SHAMANISM
6 NO DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
1 GOVERNMENT_TYRANNY
2 GOVERNMENT_CITY_STATE
3 GOVERNMENT_ANCIENT_KINGDOM
4 GOVERNMENT_ANCIENT_EMPIRE
5 GOVERNMENT_THEOCRACY
6 NO DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
1 GOVERNMENT_FEUDALISM
2 GOVERNMENT_BUREAUCRACY
3 GOVERNMENT_ENLIGHTED_MONARCHY
4 GOVERNMENT_MEDIEVAL_EMPIRE
5 GOVERNMENT_MONOTHEISM
6 NO DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
1 GOVERNMENT_PEOPLES_REPUBLIC (a lá Paris in the mid 1800.)
2 GOVERNMENT_REPUBLIC
3 GOVERNMENT_ENLIGHTED_MONARCHY (no changes)
4 GOVERNMENT_WORLD_EMPIRE
5 GOVERNMENT_FUNDAMENTALISM
6 GOVERNMENT_DEMOCRACY
1 GOVERNMENT_COMMUNISM
2 GOVERNMENT_FACISM (police state)
3 GOVERNMENT_CONSTITUAL_MONARCHY
4 GOVERNMENT_WORLD_CORPORATION
5 GOVERNMENT_FUNDAMENTALISM (no changes)
6 GOVERNMENT_DEMOCRACY (no changes)
1 GOVERNMENT_COMMUNISM (no changes)
2 GOVERNMENT_ONEPARTY_STATE
3 GOVERNMENT_CONSTITUAL_MONARCHY (no changes)
4 GOVERNMENT_WORLD_CORPORATION
5 GOVERNMENT_ECOTOPIA
6 GOVERNMENT_VIRTUAL_DEMOCRACY
1 GOVERNMENT_PLANETARY_EMPIRE
2 GOVERNMENT_ONEPARTY_STATE (no changes)
3 GOVERNMENT_VIRTUAL_REPUBLIC
4 GOVERNMENT_THECNOCRACY
5 GOVERNMENT_ECOTOPIA (no changes)
6 GOVERNMENT_VIRTUAL_DEMOCRACY
note: every set of 'names' represents names of governments in a different era. (
of course, the governments will themselves change, also)
The_Aussie_Lurker's class/faction system
OK, I just thought it might be a good idea to explain some of the concepts
within my ideas for Governments and SE.
First up, Societal Influence is an abstracted confluence of the proportional
population of that faction and its 'Political Clout'. It can 'theoretically
range from 0-100% (but almost NEVER will!) Influence affects several things,
namely:
i) Revenue derived from taxation.
ii) AI Governor Choices for a city's Build Queue.
iii) What Improvements you build; techs you research; Government you have and
Laws you pass!
Secondly the 'Factions' are the various groups which make up any given society.
They are:
1) Labourers. The ordinary working people, whose 'influence' is based on the
amount of production in each city, the # of SPECIFIC production enhancing
improvements you have and the # of operational mines you have. It's also
increased by the number of strategic resources you possess, and how many Civil
Engineers and Workers you have.
2) Farmers. The people on the land, whose influence is based on the amount of
food each city produces/turn. The # of Agricultural/Expansionist Improvements,
and the # of worked, irrigated fields you have. It’s also boosted by bonus
resources such as cattle, wheat, grapes and the like.
3) Wealthy Elite. The rich and, in some cases, the Nobility. Based on the number
of luxuries you currently possess, the number of commerce points you have, and
the number of Wealth Generating Improvements (marketplaces, Banks, Stock
Exchanges). Also increased by how many entertainers you have, and if you have
precious metals and/or gems as bonus resources.
4) Merchants/Administrati. Those who keep the books, gather up the money and
keep the internal and external trade links going. Their influence is defined by
the number of commercial improvements, the number of ‘tax specialists’, the
number of cities connected to your internal trade network, and the number of
active trade deals you have going.
5) Law enforcement. Your Police and Judiciary. There influence is simply based
on the number of corruption reducing improvements you currently have, the number
of police specialists, and the number of ‘laws’ that are currently active.
6) Organised Crime. Speaks for itself. Influence is increased by the amount of
corruption in your empire. Also increased if you have a ‘Black Market’, and by
the number of Contraband resources you possess, or are currently trading.
7) Industrialists. These don’t appear until after you discover ‘Steam Power’.
Their influence is increased according to the number Production Improvements and
strategic resources that you possess.
8) Religious: Again, speaks for itself. Their influence is obviously based on
the number of religious improvements that you have in your empire. It also grows
according to your cultural strength.
9) Environmentalists. This faction doesn’t appear until the discovery of
Ecology. There influence is based on the number of recycling plants/Solar plants
etc. you have. Also increased by the amount of pollution you have in your
empire.
Of course, your Civ Traits (Industrious, Commercial, militaristic etc) will also
effect the BASE Influence of the various factions.
Mr.Nice Guy's Government Agencies
Government Agency Technologies
There are literally dozens and dozens of government agencies in the game, but
when you first begin a new game only a few will be available to the player, but
only a few are needed in the beginning of the game. In order have more agencies
the player needs to first discover certain technologies, such as the Espionage
technology in order to have a CIA (for example).
Government Agency Funding
You can change the funding for each agency as you see fit, however each agency
requires a minimum amount of funding in order to function, but if you use the
minimum funding for an agency you will only get minimum results from that
agency. In order for an agency to have a larger impact on your Civ you need to
increase the funding to a more desirable level.
Spending
Having too much funding for your agencies or too many agencies in operation,
however, can be very expensive and you may spend your civilization into debt if
you are not careful. You must balance funding and turn on on what government
agencies you need after first determining the needs of your Civ at the time.
Micromanagement
However, since managing government agencies can be a tedious process and is a
form of micromanagement, it is strongly recommended that (unless you want to
spend hours and hours micromanaging your Civ on your own) you use the AI to help
manage this for you. You can, however, only have partial AI management for this
feature by checking off which agencies you'd rather manage on your own.
The Plague Rat's social engineering model
state: religious <------o-> secularized,
pluralism: centralised <-o-----> decentralized,
ownership: private <---o---> state,
civil/voting rights: the elite <-----o-> all citizens,
Maniac's social engineering model, and effects
Liberal/Open/Innovative <-> Conservative/Closed/Narrowminded Society Values
Liberal/Open/Innovative:
Faster research.
Military units used for police duty are less effective or ineffective.
Espionage missions by other civs against you have a higher chance of success,
and they cost less.
Population of another culture/religion/whatever-concept-will-be-used than your
state culture/religion are happier than standard.
Population of another culture/religion are converted to your state
culture/religion slower or not at all.
<->
Conservative/Closed/Narrowminded:
Slower research.
Military units used for police duty are more effective.
Espionage missions by other civs against you have a lower chance of success, and
they cost more.
Population of another culture/religion/whatever-concept-will-be-used than your
state culture/religion are less happy than standard.
Population of another culture/religion are converted faster to your state
culture/religion.
Decentralized/(Con)federal <-> Centralized/Unitary State Structure
Decentralized/(Con)federal:
Equal and less corruption/inefficiency/whatever-concept-is-used everywhere.
Less control over tax/science/luxuries allocations.
Espionage missions by other civs against you have a higher chance of success,
and they cost less.
Population of another culture/religion/whatever-concept-will-be-used than your
state culture/religion are happier than standard.
Population of another culture/religion are converted to your state
culture/religion slower or not at all.
<->
Centralized/Unitary:
Less corruption/inefficiency near your civilization's core and/or in cities with
a large majority of state religion/culture population.
More corruption/inefficiency the further away from your civilization's core
and/or in cities with a large majority of another religion/culture population.
More control over tax/science/luxuries allocations.
Espionage missions by other civs against you have a lower chance of success, and
they cost more.
Population of another culture/religion/whatever-concept-will-be-used than your
state culture/religion are less happy than standard.
Population of another culture/religion are converted faster to your state
culture/religion.
Free Market/Private Ownership <-> Collectivist Economy
Free Market/Private Ownership:
Economy bonus.
Industry/Production penalty.
Less or no units are supported for free.
Less control over tax/science/luxuries allocations.
<->
Collectivist:
Economy penalty.
Industry/Production bonus.
More units are supported for free.
More control over tax/science/luxuries allocations.
Free Trade <-> Protectionist Foreign Trade Policy
Free Trade:
Science bonus.
Trade/Economy bonus.
Less tolls and tarriffs from trade routes passing through your territory (if the
concept of trade routes actually running over the map is included).
Unhappier people.
Industry/Production penalty.
<->
Protectionist:
Science penalty.
Trade/Economy penalty.
More tolls and tariffs from trade routes passing through your territory (if the
concept of trade routes actually running over the map is included).
Happier people.
Industry/Production bonus.
Nomad/Expansionist/Colonist <-> Sedentary/Urban Lifestyle
Nomad/Expansionist/Colonist:
Morale/Experience/Whatever-concept-is-used bonus.
More units are supported for free.
Combat bonus against barbarians, pirates etcetera.
Military units and settlers cost less to produce.
Economy and/or production penalty.
<->
Sedentary/Urban:
Morale/Experience/Whatever-concept-is-used penalty.
Less or no units are supported for free.
Combat penalty against barbarians, pirates etcetera.
Military units and settlers cost more to produce.
Economy and/or production bonus.
The_Aussie_Lurker's SE sliders
Liberty: effects how free your people are-to speak and assemble in public (and
private, for that matter). The lower you set this, the more 'content' people you
will have in your civ-but the greater the chance of a revolt and/or civil war
when the people DO become unhappy. Also reduces the chance of spy missions
against your civ.
Secularity: effects the degree to which religion dictates politics and social
policy. The lower you set this, the less effective religious improvements
become, but the less likely you are to succumb to a religious schism. Also
reduces the chances of a dark age occuring.
Private Enterprise: effects the degree to which the private sector is involved
in your economy. The lower you set this, the less cash you get from company tax,
but the greater control you have over what your city can build and what
resources you can exploit.
Sufferage: effects who can vote for the government of the day, and the degree of
influence the middle and lower classes have over your policies. The lower you
set this, the more direct control you have over your civs domestic and foreign
policies-but the more unhappy your make your people-especially labourers and
civil servants.
Legalism: The degree to which the rule of law dominates your civ-and how harsh
your penal code is. The lower you set this, the less your law and order budget
will set you back, but also the more crime and corruption you will have to deal
with!
Tolerance: The degree to which those of different cultures and religions are
accepted within your society. The lower you set this, the lower your
international standing becomes. Also, it increases your rate of
cultural/religious 'assimilation'-but makes foreign nationals in your civ
unhappy. It also reduces your rate of immigration
Nationalism: Not sure if this one is superfluous or not, but it effects the
degree of 'national pride' your people have. The lower you set this, the more
war weariness will hit your civ (patriotism is a strong motivator for people
during war time), but also the more likely your people are to accept you making
deals with civs from other culture groups. Reducing nationalism also increases
the rate of immigration.
5. Other (Misc)
Have rations, working day, and wages, like in CtP.
-Filix
Have managers/ministers that would influence the performance of your
civilization in different ways, with new ministers appearing as the time passes.
- Kramerman
Having dinasties in monarchies, and similar governments that would modify the
civilization, ala EU.
- Boris Godunov
Having finer tax and other rates, for example, 7% tax, 3% entertainment. (This
would also call for multiplication of production in tiles, which would be less
valuable)
-Roman
Guerillas and terrorists, that pop up in cases of unhappiness and high
corruption. These guerillas will be stealth units, can capture NCUs, and
sometimes are controlled by the player who's city got conquered. Their type also
differs by the sort of conflict.
-Lawrence of Arabia
Conclusion
Many people desired more customizability for their governments although some
feared, as Sandman stated that “The problem with scale-based systems is that
they're somewhat artificial and limited to flavourless dichotomies of war/peace,
land/naval.” instead proposing different systems, such as a heavier reliance
upon civ-traits that become obsolete after a certain time.
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